Last modified: 2010-03-20 by pete loeser
Keywords: ufe | unidentified flags |
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Identification Key:
= Positive ID (Positive Identification)
= Tentative ID (Tentative Identification)
= Some Speculation Positive ID
Image from Peter Loeser, posted January 2010
This flag was displayed on a Romanian business office wall and at first guess is some sort of European Union protest flag. It appears to be an European Union flag with the blue field replaced with a red field, maybe indicating a communist controlled EU? Anybody know anything about it?
Pete Loeser, posted January 2010
You can find some explanation on Wikipedia: "EUROPE SOCIALE" (in French). It appears to be a flag proposed by some Belgian, French and others socialist parties asking for a more social Europe.
Dominic Troupin, 3 January 2010
It's artwork of Romanian artist Vlad Nanca called "I do not know what union I want to belong to anymore." You can read more on these two links: http://www.2020.ro/files/past/vladnanca.htm and http://vladnancaworks.blogspot.com/2003/01/i-do-not-know-what-union-i-want-to.html
Aleksandar Nemet, 3 January 2010
For those looking for an image in the public domain, there is an excellent one drawn by Romain Nguyen at: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Drapeau_europe_sociale.svg, titled "French social Europe seen by the Belgian Socialist Party and some Socialists and Communist flag." - thanks to Aleksandar and Dominic, this mystery appears solved.
Pete Loeser, 3 January 2010
Positive ID
Image from Pete Loeser, posted January 2010
This flag was displayed right below the first one on the same Romanian business office wall, another European Union protest flag? It appears to be an European Union flag with the blue field and the stars replaced with the Communist emblem. Anybody know what is going on?
Pete Loeser, posted January 2010
This is also the artwork of the Romanian artist Vlad Nanca called "I do not know what union I want to belong to anymore." You can read more on these two links: http://www.2020.ro/files/past/vladnanca.htm and http://vladnancaworks.blogspot.com/2003/01/i-do-not-know-what-union-i-want-to.html
Aleksandar Nemet, 3 January 2010
Images from Pete Loeser, posted January 2010
This strange version of what appears to be the Chinese flag, only with the red background replaced by blue, has began to appear in Europe. Notice the name "Handelsbanken" on the building in the background. Is it another European Union protest flag suggesting China as a member?
Pete Loeser, posted January 2010
Positive ID
Images provided by Rick Prohaska, posted January 2010
Both of these flags have Spanish backgrounds, but I'm not sure about the double-headed eagles. If you can provide any more information on these flags I would greatly appreciate it.
Pete Loeser, posted January 2010
The coat-of-arms shield appears to be similar to that used by the First and Second Spanish Republics (i.e. - Like the modern one, but missing the center Bourbon symbol of the modern coat-of-arms). This suggested they might be Carlist flags. The shortened Burgundy Cross is similar to the Carlist flag drawn by Jaume Ollé on FOTW, identified as the flag of Carlists (Spain)
Marc Pasquin, posted January 2010
I suspect Marc Pasquin is correct in identifying the two flags as Carlist. The elimination of the Bourbon in escutcheon bears out this idea as does the truncated cross. If genuine, these flags would be worth a good deal of money to a collector. Personally, I believe that if they are real they should be in a museum.
Michael Faul, posted January 2010
A living anachronism. The shield is one implemented by General Franco on 11th February 1938, in order to revive the tradition of the Catholic kings. The double eagle, however, was the ensign of Carlos I (1516-1556), when he had been chosen Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. But the shield of that ensign was different, containing the blazons of other countries belonging to his empire, such as Burgundy, Flandres, Austria and Sicily. All those parts had been removed in 1938 by Franco. I believe, that the cross burgundy was used by Carlists. Both these flags appear modern flags. I don't know, are there any Carlists left today.
Klaus-Michael Schneider, posted January 2010
Some general information for those not sure who the Carlist were. The Carlists were a political movement seeking to place a member of the Bourbon family on the Spanish throne. A series of Carlist Civil Wars fought between 1833-1876 attempted to reestablish the Bourbon rule. The movement actually lasted until the end of the Franco regime in 1975: supporting traditional Catholicism and monarchism against more liberal Spanish political forces.
Pete Loeser, posted January 2010
The "Carlist" flags on our pages are probably retro flags, manufactured for tourists. I saw some of them and some more last November in a souvenir shop in Sevilla.
Klaus-Michael Schneider, 31 January 2010
Image from Google Images, 15 March 2010
This design of the double-headed eagle suggests these flags belong to the francoist-like group Bases Autónomas. This group used to paste a lot of wall sign in the streets of Madrid in the 1990s, but I don't remember having seen any of them lately. In any case, these flags vary somewhat the typical design, which includes a celtic cross instead of the Spanish coat-of-arms.
A. Parra, 14 March 2010
Positive ID
Images provided by Rick Prohaska, posted January 2010
Similar to the unknown Spanish flags Carlist flags above, but without any Spanish background. The crest on the double-headed eagles has been replaced with a sun wheel, suggesting a neo-Nazi connection. Anybody recognize it?
Peter Loeser, posted January 2010
This black flag, with the similar eagle and sun-wheel may well be a modern Carlist design. The eagle is in exactly the same format as the other two. One of the identifying features of the Carlists was the wearing of a black beret, which may be referred to in the colour of the flag.
Michael Faul, posted January 2010
This is another one of the flags of the francoist-like group Bases Autónomas. They used this design of the double-headed eagle on a variety of flags in the 1990s. In any case, these flags vary somewhat the typical design, which includes a celtic cross instead of the Spanish coat-of-arms.
A. Parra, 14 March 2010
Positive ID
Image provided by Rick Prohaska, posted January 2010
The combination of Spanish colors and the Sun Wheel suggests a Spanish neo-Nazi group, but which one? Does anybody recognize it?
Peter Loeser, posted January 2010
The black flag with the red-bordered yellow cross and the sun-wheel may well be what you suggest. Odd in a way, as black in Spain was usually associated with the Anarchist movement, who would definitely not use a sun-wheel.
Michael Faul, posted January 2010
This is another one of the flags of the francoist-like group Bases Autónomas. It definetly was used by this group in several signs and stickers.
A. Parra, 14 March 2010
Positive ID
This flag was identified, and has been moved to the NATO page as the Joint Command Southwest (JCSW) command flag.
Some Speculation
Image provided by Jim Ferrigan, 8 January 2010
Here is an UFE identified only as an institutional flag from Maryland, made by Annin. The image of this flag was sent to me by a staff person at the Star-Spangled Banner Flag House & Museum of Baltimore, Maryland; and was identified only as an unknown "institutional flag?." Presumably the photo was taken there. Presumably sometime in the 1990s as that is when it was acquired. The Annin connection is provided by the Annin makers mark visible on the upper hoist obverse of the flag.
Jim Ferrigan, 8 January 2010
Sorry, no help on this one. Except to say it is clearly a House in the center. Searching under "federal housing flag" came up with logos for various federal home funding agencies, but no flag or similar logo. Did anyone try contacting Annin?
Nick Artimovich, 20 January 2010
It looks like some sort of bridge to me.
Jack Lowe, 29 January 2010
Image from Paul Grubb, 29 January 2010
It also resembles the logo used for Equal Housing Opportunity. See the attached logo.
Paul Grubb, 29 January 2010
I inquired at Annin Flag Company and received this reply from Kathleen Lubanski (Sales, Administrative Assistant): "Unfortunately I have no information for the flag that is pictured. If it was from over five years ago we would no longer have the information in our system. Sorry I could not be of better assistance." So it still remains a mystery, even to the company that manufactured the flag. I also asked Kathleen to hang-up a picture of it on their bulletin board to see if any of the "old-timers" might remember it, so perhaps something will come of that.
Pete Loeser, 2 February 2010
Image from Aleksandar Nemet, 9 January 2010
Here is a photo of an unidentified purple, yellow, white horizontally striped flag photographed in Rome, Italy. The original uploader of this photo to Wikimedia Commons (22 July 2009) said that it might be a religious flag.
Aleksandar Nemet, 9 January 2010
Some Speculation
Image by Daniel Boese, 11 January 2010
I found a small plastic stick-pin in a pile of family souvenirs dating from the 1970's-1980's, in the form of a rectangular flag about a centimetre wide. I haven't been able to find it at FOTW; given what it was found among, I think that it might be from an airline, possibly a Canadian one, possibly Nova Scotian. It consists of a white field, with a broad horizontal blue stripe at the bottom, above which is a much narrower red stripe; halfway across, both stripes angle upwards, with the red stripe reaching the top-right corner.
Daniel Boese, 11 January 2010
This is pure speculation based on hazy memories, but the style and color reminds me of a design once seen on United Airlines planes, and didn´t Air Transat (an airline based in Montreal and Quebec) also use a similar tail design in the 1980s? Does anybody else remember seeing them besides me?
Pete Loeser, 24 January 2010
Positive ID
Image from Rodney Duggua, 25 January 2010
Can you help me in identifying the Shipping Line shown in the attached not very good photo of a painting of a ship called "Aral." This was a ship that a Great Uncle of mine may have been Master of. The painting was salvaged by my late Father upon the death of my Great Aunt and this must have been some 40 years ago. With thanks.
Rodney Duggua, 25 January 2010
Cropped Image, 26 January 2010
I am forwarding this inquiry about a flag shown in a painting of the Aral to the FOTW mailing list. The flag of concern appears to be the red-white-blue vertical tricolour swallowtail, with the white band taking the form of 4 elongate diamonds stretching horizontally almost from hoist to fly.
Rob Raeside, 26 January 2010
The "Aral" was a tanker built 1891 for W. Tapscott & Company of Liverpool being broken up at Inverkeithing 28/8/1929. In 1897, the Tapscott fleet was bought by Hamilton, Fraser & Company of Liverpool and operated under the name of the Rover Shipping Company. Hamilton, Fraser also operated as the Inch Shipping Company Ltd. (Their flag is shown on the FOTW page on British shipping companies). According to Lloyds 1904 the word "INCH" shown in Antönio's image was replaced by "ROVER." The painting image does not show the lettering which is not really surprising. Hamilton, Fraser sold the ship in 1908 together with 6 others and their last ship was sold in 1909 (nothing on the buyers) so the painting obviously portrays the ship in the period 1897-1908.
Neale Rosanoski, 13 February 2010
Some Speculation
White letters added by UFE Editor to ease identification
(Click on Image to view larger size)
This appears to be a water color picture of different Islamic flags. I found it among my grandfathers research materials. He wrote and co-wrote several books and articles on flags. His name was Commodore Byron McCandless USN ret. He passed away in 1967. It is on a poster board weight paper. It measures apx 12 1/2 by 19 1/2 inches.
William Garrison, 26 January 2010
Flag "F" in the sketch appears to be charged with a somewhat modified (older) version of the coat-of-arms of the Ottoman Empire ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Osmanli-nisani.svg ). Of course, since every flag in the sketch is captioned, what we really need is a high-rez scan and someone who can read Arabic or pre-latinization Turkish...
Eugene Ipavec, 13 February 2010
Image from Andries van der Graaf, 29 January 2010
This was sent by Andries van der Graaf from Nieuwpoort Z.H. It is like the Java-China-Paketvaart Flag of the Netherlands, with the crown surrounded by black letters K (left), F (right) and Z (bottom). There is a little label added charged with "A.J.A.Bartels, Telefoon 34303 Amsterdam." (Amsterdam got 6 digits only after WWII). It measures 75 x 100 cm. I'm quite sure that this one is Dutch, probably connected to water (houseflag, burgee, whatever...)
Jarig Bakker, 29 January 2010
Image from Andries van der Graaf, 29 January 2010
This is a second flag Andries van der Graaf, from Nieuwpoort Z.H., sent. It was sent to him by someone who wanted to do a favor, which is a mixed blessing when you don't even know whether the flag is upside down or not. It measures 125x168 cm. It has a UN-like blue field; in center a lying part of a chain of 9 links (the outer links broken) superimposed by a standing twig of 13 leaves, all gold. The twig is c1/3 flag height; the chain is c1/2 flag length.
Jarig Bakker, 29 January 2010
Some Speculation
Image from James Ferrigan, 10 February 2010
(black numbers/letters added by UFE Editor to ease identification)
For enlarged images: [Flag Image 15a] [Flag Image 15b] [Flag Image 15c] [Flag Image 15d]
On 11 December 2009, Heritage Auction Gallery of Dallas, Texas, sold at auction Lot: 57298, which was a grouping of five signal flags from the US Torpedo Boat Winslow (1898). One of the flags is ICS "N" (checkered), but the others do not conform to any USN signals of which I am aware. The plain red one (15a) may be a variant "Speed" or "Crew´s Meal." The red & blue swallow-tailed flag (15c) is marked #4, and was made at the New York Navy Yard, the others are unidentified.
James Ferrigan, 10 February 2010
It looks like the mysterious yellow/black signal flag (15b above) has reared it's ugly head again. See UFE09-3 on the UFE 2009 page.
Pete Loeser, 11 February 2010
It is sometimes almost impossible to identify solitary signal flags without any provenance, as the same design has been used with different meanings in different systems. For example, the chequered flag is "November" in the current International Code of Signals, but was "Zulu" in the system used by the Royal Navy before it adopted the NATO signal flags. In the same RN system a red pennant was numeral pennant "8." A yellow/blue/yellow pennant (15d) in the October 1917 edition of the National Geographic Magazine, page 318, is a U.S. Navy call pennant "Oscar." I don't know how "call" pennants were used. The UFE10-16c (white over blue over white) pennant is probably USN, but in the pre-NATO RN a similar pennant, black instead of blue, was a Sub-Division Flag.
David Prothero, 16 February 2010
One Tentative ID
Flag 16a
Flag 16b
Flag 16c
Images provided by James Ferrigan, 10 February 2010
On 5 Feb 2010, James D. Julia sold at auction Lot 2095, which included three signal flags they claimed are: "Three bunting flags, including a naval designating flag. Naval regulations as to such flags have changed so often we are guessing that these are captain or commander’s flags that were flown to show that an officer of that rank was aboard." These are also unknown to me as a part of any US navy signal system of which I am aware.
James Ferrigan, 10 February 2010
In February I submitted several pennants to the list. Several of you shared the difficulty of identifying lone signal pennants, and you were correct. David Prothero, speculated that UFE16c is from the US Navy and he was correct and his remark caused me to look there further.
I think I have identified this flag. In History of the Flag of the United States of America By George Henry Preble, 1880, pp. 671 to 674, this white, blue, white pennant is mentioned several times in orders promulgated in 1865, 1869 and 1870 as "Any officer, not authorized to wear the flag of a rear-admiral, or the broad pennant of a commodore, but appointed by an express order to command a division of a squadron, was to wear a divisional mark, of the size prescribed in the book of allowances (viz. five to eight feet hoist by from four to six feet length of fly), at the masthead, where the pennant is usually worn. These divisional marks were to be triangular in shape, with the middle part of a different color from the rest, in the form of a wedge, the base occupying one-third of the fly. For the first division, blue, white, blue; for the second division, red, white, red; for the third division, white, blue, white."
This is a Distinctive Mark of the US Navy, used by the commander of the Third Division of a squadron. Further research located an image in an 1872 edition of the same volume on p. 466; and although the proportions differ slightly, I am convinced that this is a ship made version of this pennant.
It is the mid-19th century equivalent of the modern USN Burgee Command Pennant.
This pennant was sold by James D. Julia Auctions as an unidentified pennant from the Decatur family, one of the most distinguished American Naval families. Now, on to research as to if a descendant of Stephen Decatur may have displayed this pennant.
Jim Ferrigan, 19 March 2010
Tentative ID
Image from Erich, 18 February 2010
(The reverse of the flag is a plain red over blue pennant with no badge)
I was informed this pennant was Dutch. The pennant is made of wool fabric mounted over white cotton fabric. The insignia is made of white cotton fabric and machine embroidered in silver gray, black and red thread. I think the pennant was made for a vehicle since it´s single sided and relatively small and the loops at the fly/pole end. Approximate size: 16 inches at the hoist/pole end by 27 inches for the fly.
Erich, 18 February 2010
It shows the arms of Bonn (Germany) as used 1732-1971, see http://www.ngw.nl/int/dld/b/bonn.htm. The pennant is perhaps that of a Bonner yacht club?
Jarig Bakker, 18 February 2010
Indeed it is the old version of the Bonn arms on the old colours of the flag (good job, Jarig!). However, without any other markings, I would not say it is yacht club pennant proper. It is just the Bonn city flag in pennant form, probably used on yachts for showing the origin of the owner.
Marcus E.V. Schmöger, 19 February 2010
Some Speculation
Image from Jackie, 20 February 2010
I am hoping you may be able to help me identify this flag. The only information that I have is that it was supposedly used during a royal visit of the British Queen to South Africa. I'm not sure if this is so, and I'm also not sure of its age. I can find no pictures of it on-line.
Jackie, 20 february 2010
That crown sure looks like the one of Saint Edward, and, as I understand it, only the British sovereign is allowed to use it, so this is definitely a Royal British flag. I'm not sure what does the white-yellow banner means, as royal standards have different designs.
Alex Danes, 20 February 2010
This is merely my opinion, but I think it mostly likely that this was just a bit of decorative display for a royal visit, not an actual flag.
Ned Smith, 20 February 2010
Tentative ID
Image from Chester Robinson, 27 February 2010
I would like to find out what type of flag I have in my possession, and any other information about it that may be available.
Chester Robinson, 27 February 2010
We don't have any flag of this design on our site. From the Southern Cross I would guess it belongs to Australia (or possibly New Zealand).
Rob Raeside, 27 February 2010
This flag would be from New Zealand, as they only display four stars of the Southern Cross, and in red. Could an Ensign for the Merchant fleet.
Dale McGuffin, 27 February 2010
We don't have an image of this flag on our site, but it is definitely the New Zealand Red Ensign. In short, NZ used a blue ensign with four stars in the fly, while most British colonies had a badge inside a disc (usually white). In 1898, red and blue ensigns with the four stars inside a white disc were requested in order to match the 'usual' practise as described in a revision of the International Code of Signals. The red ensign would have been used by NZ registered merchant ships, as opposed to government ships. It was replaced by the current Red Ensign (no disc, white stars) in 1903, to match the disc-less national flag/blue ensign confirmed in 1901/1902.
Jonathan Dixon, 27 February 2010
As has been pointed out, this appears to be a red version of the Blue Government Ensign in use between 1840-1867 and 1900-1902, but the first defaced Red Ensign for New Zealand (still in use) was authorized by an Admiralty Warrant of 7 February 1899, so this must be either an unofficial or totally unauthorized variant (possibly manufactured comparatively recently)?
Christopher Southworth, 28 February 2010
This doesn't look all that 1:2 to me. Are we wrong in displaying NZ flags of that time in that ration? Or is this specifically a flag for use by some service on land, in 3:5?
Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg, 2 March 2010
I'm sure others could give a more detailed response, both as to any relevant regulations and practice, but I would be surprised if any standard ratio was followed at that time (there was enough confusion about the designs!) On the other hand, in Australia soon afterwards, the red ensign was at times used on land, and it's quite possible that these were generally of a shorter ratio.
I'm not sure why this was only listed as a "Tentative ID." The lack of image made it easy to miss the already present complete description on our NZ pages, and the contribution from Chris adds a little confusion, but I think it is quite clear from David's research that Chris' source must have been mistaken in thinking the 7 Feb 1899 warrant was for the current ensign, rather than this one.
Jonathan Dixon, 19 March 2010
Tentative ID
Image from James Dignan, 28 February 2010
My cousin works as an antique dealer, and recently bought a plate with a coat of arms in the centre. Knowing I was interested in such things, he asked me to help identify the arms, which I quickly did as those of Saxony, though the bend on the shield appears to be blue rather than green (this may be simply due to fading of the dyes). What I don't know, though, are whether the mantling and crest indicate a specific individual or specific rank, or simply represent the royal house. I'm particularly intrigued by the three crosses hanging from the base of the arms, which I suspect may indicate that
these arms are of a specific individual. Any help with finding that out would be greatly appreciated.
James Dignan, 28 February 2010
The drawing of the arms has not been made by an expert heraldist, so any details might be attributed to the artist and not being heraldically relevant; there are two crowns: one over the shield, one over the mantle; the crowns are royal crowns, perhaps indicate grandducal origin (Sachsen-Weimar-Eisenach); the three crosses are just artistic licence and not significant; usually arms like that had several order crosses on chains, but definitely with more details and not adjacent to each other; the whole style is historicising, so the plate might date from the late 19th/early 20th century, but very well might be of somewhat later origin; all in all, one can say, what James already said: "Saxony." Nothing more precise or special. Of course, Saxony in the heraldic sense includes the several lines of the House of Wettin, that were Dukes or Granddukes in a few of the Thuringian states, and not only the royal line.
Marcus Schmöger (and father), 3 March 2010
In the Swedish "Kungliga Serafimerorden 1748-1998," there are several examples of arms of Kings of Saxony and others in the Sachsen branch lines (several excellent examples and descriptions cited here, but deleted by UFE Editor)... The use of two crowns does not seem to be unusual. "Wappen und Flaggen des Deutschen Reiches und seiner Bundesstaaten" has many of the full achievement of arms for the former German principalities and several have a crown above the arms and another above the royal cloak - Baden, Hesse and Brunswick, are three examples. The arms of Saxony, however, were shown only with supporters and a helmet and crest - no crown. The cross shaped badge appears to be the insignia of the Order of the Rue Crown. It is unclear why there would be three badges - unless they are slightly different, in which case they would be the badges of other Order of Saxony. This is still not a definitive answer, but it would seem that the arms are indeed those of the Kingdom of Saxony, which dates from 1806. With the arms becoming more complex by 1910, it would suggest that the plates are 19th Century.
Ralph Kelly, 3 March 2010
Some Speculation
Image from Laird Keir, 10 March 2010
I've come across this ensign and can't manage to identify it, either through my copy of Bartram (indicating it's not current) or by google searching the operative words: red, ensign, yacht, fish.
Laird Keir, 10 March 2010
I think that this (embowed dolphin on a Red Ensign) is an unauthorised defacement. It is not, as you say, current UK. It is not current overseas. It is not among the obsolete yacht club special ensigns that I have ever come across.
David Prothero, 10 March 2010
Image from Aleksandar Nemet, 13 March 2010
This interesting flag is displayed at the Low Head Pilot Station Museum (Tasmania, AU). Anybody know anything about it?
Aleksandar Nemet, 13 March 2010
